God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…
(2 Corinthians 5:19)
The last few weeks I have been hearing a Great (Large) Lie on “Christian Television” from many Televangelists. It is frightening and devilish — Meant to cause Great Confusion to New Christians and anger to Old Christians such as myself! …Butt, As Paul said, “We are set for the Defence of The Gospel.”
The Lie is this: Jesus is God…
I heard this and came right up out of my chair, then I heard it again… A few nights later I heard a different “Televangelist” say Jesus was Man AND God in one body — Rather than refute this I grabbed my Bible (the Only Source of Truth) and turned to Proverbs where I knew the Truth of Christ and His Beginning was recorded for us. I will let Christ speak for Himself…
“When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.”
(Proverbs 8:24-31)
Christ talks about how he was brought forth (Begotten) before Creation. Next he talks about his relationship with God, “I was daily His delight”, God delights in us too! Then Christ says he delights in us — The sons (and daughters) of men. 🙂
In Psalm 2:8, God said to Jesus, “Ask of me, and I shall give you the heathen for your inheritance.” Jesus received US as His inheritance when he rose from the dead! We belong to Christ and God has adopted us as well — We are Doubly Blessed by The Father and The Son — They are two separate entities — Each with their own place and purpose in our hearts and lives… We are the Sons and Daughters of God, and the Brides of Christ!!!
Surely you do not believe a woman gave birth to God? Or God DIED on the Cross?? Or God so loved the world that he sent Himself???
Jesus, at his trial before Pilate, clearly stated he was the Son of God. The whole Bible is based upon The Father and The Son. 1st John talks about our relationship, and our fellowship, with God the Father AND Christ the Son. “If you have not the Son you have not The Father” — They are Ours — BOTH of Them.
Personal Notes:
The Scriptures call this the “Spirit of Antichrist.”
Every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of Antichrist
God is a Spirit! Christ is flesh and bone… He said, “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me have.” (Luke 24:39)
Trinitarian Doctrine is devilish and dishonors both God and Christ… Proverbs 8 makes this very plain. God is Eternal by nature, Christ had a Beginning! This Lie is easily believed because of Christ’s Ministry on earth even though He said, “I do nothing by myself, it is The Father IN me that does the works.”
God was IN Christ, He is in you and me too …Butt, we are neither God nor Christ! Our Family Name is Jesus Christ, we are “Christians” yet we are not Christ!! God called Jesus “God” by Name, yet he is NOT God, that is Their Family name!!!
Why do we «dress up» for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week?
Matthew 1:23 – “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10,11 – “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 – (Jesus is the First and the Last)
Isaiah 44:6 – (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) – “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
Isaiah 44:24 – (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 – (Jesus made all things)
John 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… 1:14 – And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 – “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:23 – that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8:24 – “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 – Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30-33 – Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 14:6-7 – Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:9-11 – Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”
John 20:28 – And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 4:12 – “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 20:28 – (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 – (Jesus’ blood purchased us)
Philippians 2:5-7 – Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
1 Timothy 3:16 – And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Titus 2:13 – looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Hebrews 1:8,9 – But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
2 John 1:7 – For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:13 – “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”… 22:16 – “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
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Hebrews 2:17,18 – “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 – “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 – “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness – by whose stripes you were healed.”
He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 – “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 – “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Jesus Christ IS GOD – there is no way around it without mangling the meaning of the scriptures. If Jesus were not God, then it would have been EVIL for Him to receive worship. The angel in Heaven showing John the vision in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ forbid John from worshipping him, saying he was a fellow servant like John. Jesus did not forbid worship, nor corrected those who did. In fact, when 1 of the 10 lepers turned back to worship Him and give Him glory, Jesus approved. If you want to discount yourself from eternal life, just keep believing Jesus is not God.
What about these Scriptures?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1st Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
In John 20:17 Jesus said, “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
So, if Jesus is God and said He was ascending to His God, then God has a God too???
Satan could not trivialize Christ so he Idolized Him instead!
And the ONE referred to is the whole Entity of God the trinity 3 in 1 Three in ONE GOD
I totally agree with you Dave even in genesis the Hebrew for “the Word” translates into being Jesus. Jesus is the son of God and God the son. To say that he is not is clearly going against scripture and most everything we believe as Christians. What significance did Jesus Christ have then if he was just a normal mortal man how did his death mean so much compared to any other Jewish person who was also a child of God. Satan also tried to tempt Jesus because he knew he was the one who should strike is head delivering the killing blow to Satan which set us all free of sin. Satan does not Idolize Christ he hates him! HE would rather us be stuck under the old law and try to follow the old ways because he knows that we will ultimately fail. He would do anything to not have us Idolize Christ because Christ is GOD THE SON, ONE IN HIM, ALTOGETHER ONE ENTITY, GOD IN THE FLESH, OUR SAVIOR WHOM WE SHOULD GIVE THE HIGHEST PRAISE TO.
Amen! Ministermark.
Christ indeed is NOT GOD! But rather, he is who he claimed to be: the Son of GOD [John 10:36]
However with all due respect your quote from Proverbs 8:24-31 is not about Christ at all! Just read from verse 1!
Prov 8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth HER voice?
2 SHE standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3 SHE crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
Solomon is speaking of GOD’s wisdom; and in order to convey this, ‘Wisdom is being personified as a woman’
The whole chapter is about GOD’s wisdom through which GOD created all things
(cp. Jere. 10:12, 51:15; Psa. 104:24; Prov. 3:19)
So the chapter continues …
Prov. 8:18 Riches and honour are with ME; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22 YAHWEH possessed ME in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. …
No break in context … Proverbs 8 is about wisdom, specifically, the wisdom of GOD.
Every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh – 1 John 4:3
Amen! Christ came in flesh. That’s how he came into being. He did NOT exist before he was begotten/conceived. He came into being when GOD’s word/wisdom became flesh (John 1:14) in the fulness of time (Gal 4:4); in the womb of his mother Mary.
Hence, Matthew speaks of the “genesis” (beginning) of Jesus [Matt. 1:18].
When God’s power overshadowed Mary, is was for THAT REASON (conception by the power of GOD) said Gabriel, that Jesus would be called “the Son of GOD” [Luke 1.35]; that is, Jesus’ genesis and begetting was in the womb of Mary.
Gabriel declared, “holy spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and for that reason indeed (dio kai) the holy child to be begotten will be called Son of God” (Luke 1:35).
That is ‘when’ Jesus began to exist – that was his beginning i.e. his begetting in the womb of Mary by the power of GOD Most High.
Jesus did not pre-exist his conception/birth!
For more details I recommend the following :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp_6sKv2Osk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPUHLdcSKc
http://focusonthekingdom.org/27.htm
http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/preexist.htm
Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
Greetings Adam,
Thanks for taking the time to comment!
I was raised in Demonational Churches and found the Doctrine of the Trinity caused a huge amount of Confusion when trying to understand the Bible. Once I understood there is only One God (The Father) – the Holy Spirit, and One Son – Jesus Christ of whom is the Holy Ghost, confusion was gone and the Bible made perfect sense!
I believe Christ was “the firstborn of all creatures” (Colossians 1:15), and “the beginning of the creation of God” (Revelation 3:14).
In the Beginning God said “Let there be Light!” It was the “Light of the World” – Jesus Christ – God created first! (The Sun, Moon, and Stars were created later, on the fourth day).
This lines up perfectly with Philippians 2:6, “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” Christ was in the “form” of God – Light! Then he “Took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men” – Flesh.
Proverbs 8 IS about the wisdom of God… “Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” (1st Corinthians 1:24)
This is another reason Christ CANNOT be God. God said, “I change NOT!” Christ was changed from Light (spirit) to Flesh and Blood (Man) to “The Firstborn from the Dead” (Flesh and Bone – The Eternal New Creature). On the road to Emmaus “He appeared in another form unto two of them!” God also made him a “quickening (life-giving) spirit” – The Holy Ghost, the “Spirit of Christ!”
It is the “Spirit of Christ” or the Holy Ghost that lives in us!
Jesus did exist before hand he was the WORD referenced in Genesis. If you translate it over to original Hebrew text it says this! The only reason why Jesus had to be birthed was because he was fulfilling scripture. What Ministermark says also is that Christ was changed from “Light” (spirit) to flesh aren’t you saying then that he was something before he came to this Earth completely contradicting what Adam Pastor said. The Holy Ghost is not the spirit of Christ for he refers to him as a friend to help guide the disciples once he had left.
Greetings Shane,
Check out these two Scriptures…
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2nd Peter 1:20-21
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1st Peter 1:10-11
The Prophets were moved by the Holy Ghost – the Spirit of Christ in them
Here is a great article on The Trinity: Download or Read Now!
Well sir please read John 1:1-14 and see how it states they are one because what significance would Christ’s death have since if he wasn’t God how could he forgive us of our sins against God himself because you can only be forgiven by the one you committed the sin against.
Where does it though that they are the same. They are but they are not they are of the same trinity 3 in 1, but are not the exact same physical being if i may so physical not implying truly flesh.
I just have to say it saddens me that the truth may be attacked by the enemy as if it were a lie and the confusion caused by the claim of a lie being a truth. My heart and prayer is with those who may fall into this trap.